Sun 25 Nov 2007
This is a picture from inside the hospital -
(click for better view)
They had 4 of these posters in one hallway.
I have three comments -
- What if the patient was Buddhist or whatever?? Apparently there is no hope for him since the doctor can’t do anything!
- جمعية إعانة المرضى is spending its money on this instead of helping the patients????
- There is not ONE useful medical point in this poster which can benefit the patients.
Reminds me of this picture from the same organization 3 years ago in one of the hospitals that I posted before -
(click for better view)
30 Responses to “Kuwaiti Hospital - Part II”
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November 26th, 2007 at 12:05 am
Q
تكملة الجمله إلا أن يشاء الله؟
November 26th, 2007 at 12:49 am
داوووووووووووووووا مرضاكم بالصدقة
يعني بدهم مصاري
يعني اذا مريض و فيك انفلونزا خل يعطونك ربع دينار
و ليش تبون الشفا يقول البوستر رضي الله عنه المرض يطيح السيئات مثل الشير، شحقه اتشافون خل يلعن المرض خير خيرنا يمكن نروح الجنة…..!!!؟
November 26th, 2007 at 1:47 am
العرزاله, moo lazim akammil il jumla li’anna everything is itha shaa Allah. There is absolutely no need to say that the doctor cannot help you at all unless God wills it. If I take out the red line, will it make the poster better?
EXzombie, walla its sad that this is distributed all over the walls instead of something encouraging or medically useful to the patients!
November 26th, 2007 at 4:01 am
I hope this cheers you up a bit
http://youtube.com/watch?v=g24W5pPsBts
November 26th, 2007 at 5:51 am
This is just sickening!!
شلون يسمحون لهم باستغلال مستشفى حكومي لنشر خزعبلاتهم؟؟
يبون ينشرون افكارهم على حسابهم كيفهم..بس ما يستغلون مستشفى هو ملك عام!
شي يجيب المرض!
و يرفع الضغط!
بس ما حاجة ادفع عشر دنانير (و ثلاث مائة و عشرون فلس) على الداوء لانه اتضح ان مصحف بو ميتين فلس يحتوي على جرع كاملة من ال”آنهايدروس ليسينوبريل هايدروكلوروثيازايد”٠
سبحان الله
خل جماعة صندوق اعانة المرضى يتفرغون لسرقة الصدقات التي تصلهم احسن. اللي انكشف مؤخراً سرقة ثلاثة ملايين و نصف المليون دينار كويتي. ما يندرى عن الخافي
و خل وزارة الصحة تفتح مستشفياتها لكل نصّاب و كل موهوم يشق و يخيط فيها..فالكويت مهزلة
—–
لكني اتفق مع البوستر في نقطة واحدة: فرصتك للشفاء بالخزعبلات و الهلوسة اكبر من فرصة شفاؤك بمستشفى كويتي
!!
November 26th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
This is the equivalent of Christian Scientists who refuse medical attention because they’re waiting for God to cure them
November 26th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
على قوله بوقتاده:
كل هاللحيه و ماسووني وزير!! الا لسير نائب و استوجبك (بو نبيل) هذا الوجه الجديد للدين في الكويت و صديقتها الجنوبيه
عماااااار يا كويت عمار
November 27th, 2007 at 1:30 am
I totally agree with you that they’re wasting their budget in a wrong way and there are many things to do before writing/publishing such posters.
But at the same time, I totally agree with the facts written in their poster (the 1st one).ya3ne even if the patient is not Muslim..still he/she won’t get treatment without god’s wishes right?
November 27th, 2007 at 2:06 am
جهل
November 27th, 2007 at 4:34 am
العرزالة
I just love the fact that you call them facts
November 27th, 2007 at 9:18 am
I don’t see any contradiction between seeking medical help and believing that the process of recovery is not something guaranteed UNLESS Allah wills.
“اعقلها وتوكل”
“الأخذ بالأسباب”
All of these concepts are really beautiful.
And in a hadeeth:
“لا يرد القضاء إلا الدعاء”
The only thing I don’t like is the design of the poster, a bit old fashioned
_______
Sorry, did not have time to translate the Arabic parts in my comments.
November 27th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
1. “What if the patient was Buddhist or whatever?? Apparently there is no hope for him since the doctor can’t do anything!”
What does the patient’s religion have to do with anything?
The poster is meant for muslims, for non muslims they can ignore it altogether. And Kuwait is a predominantly muslim country, so it is VERY relevant.
As for “doctor can’t do anything” part. Did you miss point #4?
Allah cures muslims and non muslims alike. here on earth his blessings are allowed for both.
قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لو كانت الدنيا تعدل عند الله جناح بعوضة ما سقى كافرا منها شربة ماء
2.
جمعية إعانة المرضى is spending its money on this instead of helping the patients????
You mean that this is unworthy of spending money on. I disagree strongly. because:
a. This is a spiritual message which I myself need to be reminded of (That my heart should be convinced that the actual “healing” or “help” is only possible because Allah willed it).
b. I don’t defend the organization itself as we all know of their embezzlement scandals. But a few posters are hardly a financial burden.
c. Reminding the patients that they can help themselves with Ruqya using Qur’an is NOT a waste of money. If you don’t believe in Ruqya despite the Aya mentioned in the poster point #1, and some would say this is nothing but “spiritual healing” not physical. Why is it not physical? what’s so incredible about that? but anyway, here’s more evidence that “physical” healing is what is meant by the Aya from sa7ee7 muslim:
أن جبريل أتى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال يا محمد اشتكيت فقال نعم قال باسم الله أرقيك من كل شيء يؤذيك من شر كل نفس أو عين حاسد الله يشفيك باسم الله أرقيك
Which means that simply asking Allah for healing is a correct thing to do, and it can help if Allah accepts the prayer. And also in sa7ee7 ilbu5ari:
انطلق نفر من أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في سفرة سافروها حتى نزلوا على حي من أحياء العرب فاستضافوهم فأبوا أن يضيفوهم فلدغ سيد ذلك الحي فسعوا له بكل شيء لا ينفعه شيء فقال بعضهم لو أتيتم هؤلاء الرهط الذين نزلوا لعله أن يكون عند بعضهم شيء فأتوهم فقالوا يا أيها الرهط إن سيدنا لدغ وسعينا له بكل شيء لا ينفعه فهل عند أحد منكم من شيء فقال بعضهم نعم والله إني لأرقي ولكن والله لقد استضفناكم فلم تضيفونا فما أنا براق لكم حتى تجعلوا لنا جعلا فصالحوهم على قطيع من الغنم فانطلق يتفل عليه ويقرأ الحمد لله رب العالمين فكأنما نشط من عقال فانطلق يمشي وما به قلبة قال فأوفوهم جعلهم الذي صالحوهم عليه فقال بعضهم اقسموا فقال الذي رقى لا تفعلوا حتى نأتي النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فنذكر له الذي كان فننظر ما يأمرنا فقدموا على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فذكروا له فقال وما يدريك أنها رقية ثم قال قد أصبتم اقسموا واضربوا لي معكم سهما فضحك رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم
Which means not only is Ruqya with Qur’an working here, but its also legitimate to ask for a fee for it. (terms and conditions apply or dont 3ad hathe kaifhom). The point is Ruqya works. Also note that they DID look for normal healing methods before resorting to Ruqya.
3. “There is not ONE useful medical point in this poster which can benefit the patients.”
Wrong, see the above
a. Ruqya can benefit the patient.
b. Remembering that Allah is the healer (by means of doctors and drugs) is important for a muslim’s faith.
EXzombie: You don’t have to give your sadaqa to them. Look for a needy person near you. Allah will know and He’ll help your patient.
Bader: If you think that kalam Allah o af3al Rasoola are 5oza3balaat, then you should examine the a7adeeth I listed, and make sure of their authenticity.
November 27th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Bader
As far as I know, they’re facts for Muslims! don’t you agree?
November 28th, 2007 at 12:58 am
ياسلام بس خلاص ماله داعي نروح المستشفيات بس نقعد وندعي
November 28th, 2007 at 1:09 am
العرزالة
No I don’t.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:55 am
Mishari 26, العرزاله , and all…
I think the more central point of the post is that such posters may greatly influence a patient’s understanding of their sickness and be dangerous to their health.
Unfortunately Mishari26, not everyone uses the same rational approach when interpreting this advice. In fact, unlike you, many people, if not most, do think that these things are exclusively outside the realm of ‘physical healing’, which is not, as you explain, what is actually meant by the Quran. (or at least can be interpreted).
Though I am not saying that non-physical healing is impossible, I’m just saying that the wording of the poster makes it seem, at worst, as if the Doctor is not of any use, at best, as if he/she is extremely secondary to other more superior methods. What would stop people from going to scam local ‘religious’ healers (most of them are a scam) or ‘witchdoctors’?
And so, this poster, by an organization that is supposed to help patients, is putting them in a lot more danger by how it presents the nature of the recovery/healing process. (regardless of their intention.)
November 28th, 2007 at 10:41 am
حمودي
La’, not only teg3ad tad3e. As mentioned in the poster’s point #4, you look for all and any means of healing available to you. Doctor, specialist, do3a’, Qur’an. you use them ALL. because they all work.
However if you mean to say that do3a’ is useless, then I remind you that do3a’ is the heart of worship. its the basic thing that declares your faith in Allah’s power over all things. But I hope you don’t mean that.
AEP:
I don’t see why I’m likely to understand the poster correctly as you say, and the vast majority should misunderstand it. I merely repeated what the poster said:
a. No healing is possible unless Allah willed it. maybe you’re right that they should have extended the “red line” under the “illa an yasha’ Allah”.
b. Local religious healers are mostly just people who read Qur’an on the patient, which as I explained is a legitimate means of healing. La o ba3ad its legitimate for them to ask for a fee. but the few of them that I met did it for free, like a social service. The witchdoctors are the ones who do other dubious things like attempt to talk to Jinn or do Se7er etc, those should be reported to the law. So we should differentiate between the two. and NOT put them in the same category.
As for putting the patient in danger, there isn’t a single point that tells the patient to go home and forget about the doctor. Point#1 talks about Ruqya which is simply reading some Qur’an on yourself, this can’t take more than 1 minute while sitting in the doctor’s waiting room. And point #4 clearly says “seek medical attention”.
November 28th, 2007 at 11:43 am
Mishari26:
Yes your points are legitimate and consistent.
One central issue you have not fully addressed though; the way the wording of the poster protrays the role of the doctor, as I mentioned above. I am not saying, as you claim, that the poster tells the “patient to go home and forget about the doctor”.
If you look at the wording, it seems as if the doctor is the lowest priority when it comes to healing. Notice that while point 4,5 and 6 only set up a positive relationship between atadawi/du’a/sadaqa and health, both point 2 and 3 (and arguably one) EXPLICITLY negate the positive relationship between doctors and health if certain conditions do not apply. Obviously for Muslims these conditions should exist in all points, but they are not stated in the others.
To sum up:
My problem is the fact that they say:
1- Medicine/Sadaqa is good, make sure you take it/do it.
2- Doctors are NOT good, unless God wills it - he is the true healer.
They could have said:
1- Medicine (or Sadaqa) and Doctors are good for your health make sure you follow up on them.
3- Remember God is the true healer.
Placing doctors below du’a, sadaqa and non-prescribed medicine is VERY DANGEROUS.
As you pointed out yourself:
“b. Remembering that Allah is the healer (by means of doctors and drugs) is important for a muslim’s faith.”
**…by means of doctors and drugs…**
Again, please do not think that I am disregarding the power of du’a and sadaqa here, but I, like you, believe that God’s healing comes by means of doctors and drugs.
And if this organization wants to help my society, it should remind them of that fact first.
November 29th, 2007 at 2:45 am
The poster seems kinda tricky like a safety net,
“hey our doctors can’t treat you? It’s in god’s hand not ours! Don’t sue!”
“They botched your operation? qatha2 o qadar, ent mo muslim?”
It’s tawakol to leave medicine, and stick to praying.. I love how in the second picture they’re offering you do3a2 booklets not actual donations for operations and better equipment.
..and they probably took 10k to do 20 of these these 4KD posters.
November 29th, 2007 at 2:48 am
*I meant tawakol as in تواكل.
November 29th, 2007 at 5:34 am
I think the direction has deviated into a discussion of the specific points presented in the poster.
Because I find the whole content of the poster total nonsense, I am not interested in discussing its points.
Here’s what interests me:
First of all, as I had implied above,
I find it repulsive that the Ministry of ‘Health,’ by facilitating the spread of such material, is marketing and encouraging potentially harmful, scientifically baseless and medically invalid religious rituals as legitimate medical practice.
This behaviour by the Ministry is -at best- unethical. If these tips were given by a doctor, his or her medical license would immediately be revoked.
Secondly, I find it unjustified and that our public facilities are being used as a bulletin board for the propaganda of religious and political private organizations favoured by those in charge in the government.
Majority or no majority, the government has no legal right to favour one religious cult, sect or faith -or political organization- and suppress another. It is unconstitutional. Opportunity should be equal and there are ways to guarantee that.
….
On a different note, preying on the sick, the weak, and the needy (people at the nadir of their emotional and/or physical lives), has always been the strategy of religious fanatics everywhere; and I find it immoral.
November 29th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
عزيزي، جمعية اعانة المرضى ما عندهم فلوس عقب ما باقهم واحد سبع وانحاش
شيسوون مساكين، فقااارة
ما تشوف بوستراتهم بوسترات طراروة
خلنا ساكتين أحسن
November 29th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
إللي مو عاجبه البوستر أو بالأحرى مو عاجبة كلام النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أو بالأحرى مو عاجبه الإسلام أقول لهم: موتوا بغيظكم
وأدعوا الله العظيم رب العرش العظيم أن يجعلهم دايما في المستشفى مرضى
November 29th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Muslim
خوش مسلم انت
هذا بدال ما تدعي لهم بالهداية
ليش هالحقد و هالكره يا اخوي؟
هذا دينك؟
December 4th, 2007 at 1:45 am
What a loadda rubbish. These signs should be torn down. Hospitals are no place for religious doctrine, nor is it a place of advise on any other form of idiologies. Especially advise that comes from idiologies that might controdict medical advise. Hospital is a place of medicine. Not spiritual healing. Full stop! period!! You want spiritual healing, you go to the mosque, church, or synigogue.
The “islamic fever” that is gripping kuwait is getting to the point of the ridiculas!!
December 7th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
I dont see a problem with the poster. It is simply reminding people that God is in control of everything and he is to be primarly asked for cure. However, that doesnt cancel the doctor role for being the physical cause for healing. But without God’s will Doctors cannot do anything.
I think we should not misinterpert the poster by making wrong assumptions, its not a political party propaganda but it is the instruction of the almighty God who created the heavens and earth.
Regards,
December 16th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
mishary26 Allah ya36eek el 3afya o yej3ela fi meezan 7asanatek inshala.. Secq8 Islam and faith has nothing to do with ideology.. Ideology based on individuals conceptual believes.. Ideology is relative while Islam is certain and carries definite rulings. We as MUSLIMS should consider everything mentioned in Quraan or by our beloved prophet as facts.
So, if anyone does not like the idea of reading or implementing what is shown in these posters, simply ignore it!
(و من يتق الله يجعل له مخرجاً)
January 19th, 2008 at 4:19 am
Hanan.. Facts like magic is real, and such things as jin and other hocus-pocus.
January 19th, 2008 at 4:27 am
Hanan, You’re right, to be more precise.. religion is not an ideology.. in fact it is merely a THEORY of reality.
May 4th, 2008 at 2:19 am
Q lyy mara`9 wa7d mnhom?
brayq ro7a 7g la eyey il 6beb?
wila seda byrk`9on 7g lajnat il 3ilaj bl 5arj?
3. There is not ONE useful medical point in this poster which can benefit the patients.
la abshrk iyek wa7d ma y7trm 59o9eyat ilmre`9 iwz3 lk ilwrega ” tafel o madre shno ”
allah ihdeehom bss